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Traveller-digest     Thursday, December 9 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1472<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re Munchkins<BR>
Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
Re: Starfleet = Coast Guard<BR>
Re: Prize vs Salvage<BR>
Re: Deadfall Ordnance and Falling Rocks (long)<BR>
Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
Re: Missing Digests<BR>
Re: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:16:54 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
>What is a munchkin?<BR>
<BR>
IME, it's applied to those whose motto tends to be "I can do more<BR>
mega-damage than you can", as well as demanding "More pay for less play"<BR>
for their characters. They also tends to do 3 hour analyses of their GURPS<BR>
or Hero system characters looking for the ultimate point saving ballance.<BR>
<BR>
>I've known a very few obnoxious female gamers, but they were all obnoxious<BR>
>because their partners had dragged them along and they didn't really want<BR>
>to be there.  They weren't really gamers at all and they drove me nuts<BR>
>because they tended to assume the same of me, except when I RAN the games.<BR>
><BR>
>Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
I've encountered but a very few of those... The "non-gaming SO" thrust into<BR>
the gaming role is much different from the munchkin... most of the ones<BR>
I've met have been women, and they don't quite understand the rules, don't<BR>
really care, but will play if nursemaided enough; good stories will draw<BR>
them in. Let them play the wiscracking noble, or the party healer, or some<BR>
other supporting character who's likely to be protected, important, and not<BR>
a combat monster, and most of them will slowly start to roleplay. IME, it<BR>
takes about a year to get such a NGSO to become at least a part time gamer.<BR>
<BR>
Coax them gently, and they tend to come around. The stubbornest I've met,<BR>
however, was a man who was the non-gamer to his avid-gamer wife. He became<BR>
a rules lawyer from HELL. So bad, in fact, that no one wants to game with<BR>
him. And he'll only play AD&D 2nd, and only FR or DL settings, and won't<BR>
tolerate even the minorest of house rules, deviations from print, or<BR>
interpretations which conflict with his (unless backed up in Dragon).<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav, I find Traveller to be a wonderful means of training<BR>
roleplaying... the CT setting allows for much non-combat-oriented<BR>
adventuring. Lots of Noblesse Amour and intrigue will get most of the<BR>
romance reading gaming widows interested.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 18:22:42 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:51:28 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 9 Dec 1999, cos 90 wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > >turns out to be a Rules Lawyer or munchkin. I hand him<BR>
> > >that (him ain't sexist, never met a female gamer who<BR>
> > >was a rules lawyer or munchkin) and we're all happy.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I have -- I know a female gamer who is also a munchkin. One<BR>
> > who has other unwelcome qualities. <BR>
> <BR>
> What is a munchkin?<BR>
<BR>
Here's something posted by Bruce from over two years ago:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<<<<<>>>>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I went to the alleged source, rec.games.frp.misc. and the consensus seems<BR>
to be that the term arose from the fact that the characters that most<BR>
seemed to display this behavior were the 10-13 year olds at the cons, and<BR>
the colloquial term 'munckin' used to refer to little kids came to mean<BR>
these players and their 300th level paladins. Dates of origin seem to be<BR>
the late 70's.<BR>
<BR>
But, by far the best answer comes from one Mark Campbell:<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Subject: Re: Question: Origin of term 'Munchkin'<BR>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:03:42 GMT<BR>
From: ncc1701i@hotmail.com (Mark Campbell)<BR>
Organization:None<BR>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc, rec.games.design<BR>
References: 1<BR>
Bruce Johnson <bjohnson@u.arizona.edu> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Where did the RPG definition of Munchkin come from?<BR>
<BR>
Munchkins, in their roles as protectors of the Yellow Brick Road, by<BR>
necessity develop a large number of useful skills. In fact, the<BR>
relentless training ritual of singing, dancing and skipping force the<BR>
small folk to develop perfect coordination and the best possible<BR>
cardi-vascular system. Consequently, all Munchkins have Dexterity and<BR>
Constitution ratings of 18.<BR>
<BR>
The constant work the Munchkins do in picking flowers and replacing<BR>
yellow bricks that have faded to faint pastels also does its work to<BR>
chisel the muscles of these hardy folk. Lifting sometimes as many as two<BR>
or three bricks at a time, all Munchkins have a Strength score of 18.<BR>
Those who occasionally work out even further by practicing sword<BR>
fighting with dandylion stems actually exceed this score, and these<BR>
Munchkins have a Strength score of 18/00.<BR>
<BR>
Munchkin life is not entirely a physical endeavor, however. There is, of<BR>
course, the Wizard to deal with. Being in such proximity to Oz--not to<BR>
mention all those Wicked Witches--requires sound judgement and a sharp<BR>
mind. Merely in order to survive such a lethal magical environment<BR>
requires all Munchkins above the age of four to have an Intelligence and<BR>
Wisdom of 18 each.<BR>
<BR>
With their firm, chiseled bodies, the grace that comes from a lifetime<BR>
of dancing, a keen wit and impeccable judgment, Munchkins cannot help<BR>
but to be the envy of all other races. Still, their courage and senses<BR>
of humor make the Munchkins the most lovable race in the multiverse.<BR>
Therefore, all Munchkins have a Charisma (and Comliness, if this<BR>
optional rule is used) score of 18.<BR>
<BR>
Munchkins as a race are, of course, the most highly developed beings<BR>
ever produced by the gods--in fact, each and every member of the race<BR>
borders on the divine itself. Their incredible aptitude in all areas<BR>
mean that they automatically gain every non-weapon proficiency the first<BR>
time they attempt a task. In fact, they never suffer a non-proficiency<BR>
penalty whether using a weapon or attempting a new skill for which they<BR>
previously had no proficiency slot.<BR>
<BR>
Naturally, such a capable race cannot be held back to only one character<BR>
class. All Munchkins are Warrior/Priest/Wizard/Rogues, but use the Rogue<BR>
table to advance in levels for all classes. Lawful Good Munchkins are<BR>
usually Paladin/Specialty Priest/Evoker/Bards, while other Good Munkins<BR>
may be Ranger/Druid/Necromancer/Thiefs -- or anything else they want!<BR>
<BR>
Because of the powerful aura which Munchkins posess, any being opposing<BR>
one automatically functions as if they are subject to a Protection from<BR>
[Good/Evil/Whatever] 10' Radius spell. All attacks against Munchkins are<BR>
made at -2 to hit and damage, spells do -1 hit point per die, and<BR>
Munchkins are immune to any spells from the Illusion school.<BR>
<BR>
In any adventuring party, the Munchkin will naturally be the party<BR>
leader, despite his small stature. In order to make up for this handicap<BR>
(being short), the Munchkin always gets first choice of any treasure<BR>
(particularly magic items) found by the party.<BR>
<BR>
Munchkins are distantly related to dwarves, humans and oompa-loompas,<BR>
but of course they are far superior to any of these races.<BR>
<BR>
Mark Campbell<BR>
<BR>
"I love California, I practically grew up in Phoenix."<BR>
Former US Vice-President Dan Quayle<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<<<<<>>>>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
James W. Lindsay       Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
"http://members.home.net/jlindsay"   ICQ:7521644 (Sharkey)<BR>
<BR>
"Honk if you've slept with Riker."<BR>
           -- typical Starfleet shuttlecraft bumpersticker<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 18:25:38 PST<BR>
From: "Gary Miles" <garyglennmiles@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starfleet = Coast Guard<BR>
<BR>
I Said:<BR>
Remind me sometime to post my analysis on why Star Trek's Starfleet most <BR>
resembles the Coast Guard more than any other current service.<BR>
<BR>
Eric Said:<BR>
>I've always believed that but never had any hard facts to support it.  I'd<BR>
>love to hear your reasons.<BR>
<BR>
Then Bruce Said:<BR>
<BR>
>Consider this a reminder...this would be a nice thing to have.<BR>
<BR>
I will try to put it down and post it this weekend. I actually had written <BR>
it as an article for a fanzine article a few years back, but the files are <BR>
on 5.25" on an Apple IIe.<BR>
<BR>
By the way, do any of you Macheads on the list (Rob? Don?) know of a way to <BR>
hook up my old IIe 5.25" floppy drives to my Mac Performa 630 to be able to <BR>
transfer text files? Email me off list if you do (or on list if anyone else <BR>
is interested.<BR>
<BR>
Good Travelling,<BR>
Gary<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:43:35 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Prize vs Salvage<BR>
<BR>
>Now, how about when two private parties are involved, rather than a<BR>
>bank vs a planetary (or Imperial) government? Sunbeard steals my ship,<BR>
>you capture it when he attacks you, have you seized a prize that is<BR>
>yours free and clear, or have you recovered my stolen property?<BR>
><BR>
IMTU, it all depends.<BR>
<BR>
See, if you find a ship with no living sophonts, and tow it in, you can<BR>
claim it as a salvaged hull. You must re-register the vessel at your own<BR>
expense. you must establish the claim before the local admirality court.<BR>
<BR>
If you defeat a ship which attacked you, and take it,you MAY get to claim<BR>
it as a prize. If you hold a letter of marque which applies, you probably<BR>
will. If you hold a repossession authorization for it, you definitely get<BR>
to claim it as a prize on behalf of the issuing title/lien holder.<BR>
<BR>
If you attacked first, you may not claim it as prize unless you hold a repo<BR>
auth or a letter of marque; in either case, you must also have notified<BR>
them of your desire for their surrender BEFORE firing.<BR>
<BR>
If you take a ship wich you did not fight, and it was operational but<BR>
unooccupied, the owners get 1 year to claim it, they you may ask for it to<BR>
be awarded to you.<BR>
<BR>
If you assist a vessel in need and it turns out to still have any living<BR>
sophonts with valid legal claim to it, you may only secure a lien against<BR>
it for the cost of the rescue efforts, including standard charter rates.<BR>
<BR>
All such claims go to the local admirality court, comprised of the local<BR>
noble or his representative subordinate noble, the planetary Navy's AiC or<BR>
his assigned subordinate, and an assigned jag officer from the IN, and if<BR>
they exists, the sector navy and subsecotr navy, plus one rep from the<BR>
IISS.<BR>
<BR>
They review your claim, verify from all available records that you did not<BR>
deny or refuse succor, demand title from surviving owners aboard, violate<BR>
imperial laws of space traffic, or misrepresent your role or claim.<BR>
<BR>
In the case of a vessel which has been stolen, but was taken as legitamate<BR>
prize, the 3 month probate on vessels IMTU applies; The lien holders or<BR>
owners may reclaim the ship within three months of it's recovery, assuming<BR>
the theft was within one year prior to recovery. If they do, they must pay<BR>
fair salvage value (10% of fair market value at time of theft) plus costs<BR>
(Charter fees plus food, fuel and ammo expenses) as a finder's fee. And the<BR>
theft report to the local admirality at point of discovery of the theft<BR>
must accompany such claims.<BR>
<BR>
Also, onne may not strip a prize or salvage until the ship clears probate,<BR>
except to save lives.<BR>
<BR>
This leads to the multiple roles of Pirates IMTU...  including skip<BR>
tracing, capturing stolen vessels, serving as starmercs (both defensive and<BR>
offensive), searching outsystems for salvage hulls, and when need be,<BR>
serving as legitamate merchants. IMTU, it is a valid career, more properly<BR>
known as a Corsair... but when times get too hard, and opportunity strikes,<BR>
well some will turn pirate. Definitely not a "Gentleman's Career", but also<BR>
not for the romantic swashbuckler, either. Hard-bitten, frequently dour and<BR>
grim, the average corsair officer is one part buisinessman, one part grim<BR>
optomist, and one part adrenaline junkie. Many go legit when the need for<BR>
adrenaline (or the ability to continue on the sporadic crew-shares) wanes.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:46:18 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadfall Ordnance and Falling Rocks (long)<BR>
<BR>
>I tried doing this for GT a while back, with some drastic simplifying<BR>
>assumptions:<BR>
<BR>
>1) No energy lost on re-entry.<BR>
Basically a fair assumption for massive objects and/or fairly streamlined<BR>
ones.<BR>
<BR>
>2) No energy _except_ gravitational potential energy. (Ie. just the energy<BR>
>from dropping the rock, nothing added for orbital velocity, rotation of<BR>
>location on planet, etc.)<BR>
This is a weaker assumption - almost all trajectories will retain a lot of its<BR>
orbital velocity, much higher than the GPE.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 18:42:08 -0800<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:33:32 -0500, "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>It depends on what you mean by "quality". If you mean, say, shows that tell<BR>
>a compelling story through picture and sound (what television is good at),<BR>
>then no, he doesn't argue against quality television. In fact, he makes the<BR>
>claim that television doesn't take that job seriously enough. If, on the<BR>
>other hand, you mean "quality" in the sense of programs with marginal<BR>
>educational content, or some sort of lasting informational content, then<BR>
>yes, he does argue against quality television.<BR>
<BR>
To rephrase, in hopes of aiding clarity:<BR>
<BR>
It's all relative, y'see.  Too many people, seeing something that's NOT AS<BR>
stupid as the rest of what's on television, accept that as their standard<BR>
of "intelligent."  If one believes that television is not the best medium<BR>
for presenting educational or informative/news content, to do so anyway<BR>
reduces the level of discourse to what it *is* capable of (i.e.,<BR>
commercials and sound bites).<BR>
<BR>
TV presents the *illusion* of real quality.  Much like the modern electoral<BR>
college presents the *illusion* of real choice.  (Oops, veering into<BR>
another rant.)<BR>
<BR>
>I will continue to maintain that there *are* inappropriate responses to<BR>
>technology, and the ones I've illustrated exist purely on a personal level.<BR>
>I don't even want to begin to speculate on what the impact of these<BR>
>technologies are on a broader level.<BR>
<BR>
Earlier this year, I read an article in _Smithsonian_ magazine (there, I've<BR>
defined my source, so caveat reader) on the Amish.  Like many people, I had<BR>
believed that their society had a simple blanket prohibition against all<BR>
technology invented after, say, 1900.  The truth is both more complex and<BR>
more interesting.<BR>
<BR>
From memory:  any given technology is judged, and the decision made to<BR>
adopt it or not (and if so, in what form), based on criteria like:  will<BR>
this make a task *too* easy, devaluing the work and making the user lazy?<BR>
Will it result in an intrusion on one's privacy?  Will it damage the<BR>
cohesion of the family, or the community?<BR>
<BR>
As an example, many Amish communities have a telephone shack, much like an<BR>
outhouse.  Thus, one goes to the shack with the specific purpose of making<BR>
or receiving a telephone call.  The shack has no heat and few concessions<BR>
to comfort, so one is not tempted to just sit there on the phone and<BR>
chatter about nothing.  And unwanted callers cannot metaphorically break<BR>
down your door and invite themselves in to sell you something, even during<BR>
dinner or prayer, as is the case for most of us with phones inside our<BR>
houses.  Having been woken up this morning by a telemarketer for MCI, I<BR>
must admit I see the appeal...<BR>
<BR>
To bring this back on topic:  clearly, the Amish and other deliberately<BR>
"backward" societies believe that there ARE negative consequences to<BR>
blindly embracing every new gadget to come down the pike.  I suspect that<BR>
this debate will become more and more important in every society as<BR>
technology becomes more pervasive.  As cell-phones, telecommuting, on-line<BR>
shopping, etc continue to erode the boundaries of our daily activities,<BR>
concepts like "family time" and "vacation" are on the endangered-species<BR>
list.  We all have to draw the line somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  PCs with wearable computers and headsets or, better yet, implants.<BR>
 24-hour-a-day head spam.  Need I say more?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair   "The Jigglypuff's trilling seems to have a <BR>
kellys@efn.org    tranquilizing effect on the human nervous system.<BR>
                  Fortunately, I am... immune..."<BR>
                            -- Mr. Spock, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:03:15 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Missing Digests<BR>
<BR>
Can someone please send me digests 1466, 1467, and 1468? My Newton Crashed<BR>
and I lost them before I could read them, and I didn't get them on my<BR>
desktop (which now works; some B*****D is spoofing an IP from my ISP...).<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 21:22:50 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
<BR>
On 12/09/99 at 09:02 PM,  isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk said:<BR>
<BR>
>How do people handle salvage rights?  For that matter, how do they<BR>
>work in the real world?<BR>
<BR>
>For example, our heroes come across a damaged, but basically intact<BR>
>ship adrift in the outer reaches of a remote system.  After checking<BR>
>the ship for survivors they find it deserted.  Once they manage to<BR>
>get the power plant online, drives working and get the ship refuelled<BR>
>they decide to leave a skeleton crew aboard, get her to civilisation<BR>
>and claim salvage rights. HOWEVER on further examination they<BR>
>discover this multi-million credit Free Trader was financed with 30<BR>
>years left to pay off.<BR>
<BR>
>The owner/operators are dead so does the ship belong to the bank? Is<BR>
>it like a mortgage where an insurance policy pays off the balance of<BR>
>the finance leaving the ship to be inherited by the owners\' next of<BR>
>kin?  Or does it belong to the salvaging PCs?<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, it varies from polity to polity, but in general the salvage<BR>
crew has *a* claim, but not necessarily the only or best claim to<BR>
the ship.  If the ship has an outstanding mortgage then the mortgage<BR>
holder (usually a bank) also has a claim.  If the ship is insured<BR>
and the insurance has paid off the mortgage and/or heirs then the<BR>
insurance company has a claim.  If the insurance has been paid off<BR>
and the insurance company has written the policy off their taxes,<BR>
then the ship belongs to the taxing government.  The case will wind<BR>
up in court, variously called Salvage Court, Claims Court, or<BR>
Maritime and Space Court.<BR>
<BR>
In almost every case the PC's are going to end up with a percentage<BR>
of the ship's worth and not the ship itself.  The PC's aren't going<BR>
to get to keep the ship.  The only time the salvagers will get the<BR>
ship is when it isn't considered to be worth much.<BR>
<BR>
This is during peacetime.<BR>
<BR>
During war, if a ship is captured by a licensed privateer *and* that<BR>
side isn't soundly defeated <G> then the ship will be retitled and<BR>
retained by those that captured it.  In some cases this will be the<BR>
government that licensed the privateer, but in others it will be the<BR>
private parties themselves.  IMTU, that's the big reason someone<BR>
would want a Letter of Marque, the possibility of grabbing a few<BR>
ships.<BR>
<BR>
In my PBEM, the Mae Lee started life as a merchant ship belonging to<BR>
a Zeristu megacorp.  It was captured by Akus Moby while he had a<BR>
Letter of Marque during the First Zeristu war, refitted and turned<BR>
into an exploratory trader.  The Zeristu corp have been trying<BR>
legally (and otherwise) to get their ship back for 30 plus years.<BR>
As long as it stays out of Zeristu space the odds are very slim they<BR>
will succeed...legally.  Of course, if they could get that ship back<BR>
into a Zeristu port then the weight of the law might shift. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
AKU GM<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 20:28:21 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
<BR>
>> I have -- I know a female gamer who is also a munchkin. One<BR>
>> who has other unwelcome qualities. <BR>
><BR>
>What is a munchkin?<BR>
<BR>
Is this a rhetorical question, or a serious request for a definition?<BR>
<BR>
From the TML FAQ:<BR>
<BR>
"Munchkin - Derogatory term referring to RPG players who is interested in<BR>
minimising their disadavantages, maximising their advantages and having the<BR>
coolest weapons and equipment. Role playing skills are not to the forefront<BR>
here."<BR>
<BR>
>I've known a very few obnoxious female gamers, but they were all obnoxious<BR>
>because their partners had dragged them along and they didn't really want<BR>
>to be there. <BR>
<BR>
This is not the case with the woman in question. She *loves* playing the<BR>
games. But her style of play and the way she creates characters is pretty<BR>
much consistent with the above definition. She also suffers from the <BR>
complete and total inability to separate her characters from her own self.<BR>
So for example if someone, in character, says something to her (character)<BR>
that she (herself) doesn't like, she'll take it personally.<BR>
<BR>
>They weren't really gamers at all and they drove me nuts<BR>
>because they tended to assume the same of me, except when I RAN the games.<BR>
<BR>
I've known several female gamers who actually liked the game. The one or two<BR>
I knew who were there just because their partners had "dragged them along"<BR>
and didn't want to be there -- what usually happened was that eventually<BR>
they and their male, game-loving, partners would disappear from the game.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 20:16:48 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
>> What, he argues *against* quality television shows???<BR>
><BR>
>It depends on what you mean by "quality". <BR>
<snip><BR>
>He's not arguing against a better Power Rangers, he's arguing against any<BR>
>sort of Sesame Street at all.<BR>
<BR>
I knew Postman was out to lunch, but this really confirms my viewpoint...<BR>
<BR>
>In the same vein, but on a different topic, he argues that the American<BR>
>political process has been changed fundamentally, for the worse, by the<BR>
>integration of television into the political process, for the same reason.<BR>
>The coarse version of his argument is: Perhaps our candidates should not be<BR>
>selected on the basis of how photogenic they are, or how well they can spit<BR>
>out one-line soundbites.<BR>
<BR>
This does not appear to have happened in Canada... I get the impression<BR>
that candidates down on your side of the border have to show what good<BR>
moral character thay have, by showing that they are stable family men.<BR>
Someone who is single, or divorced without being remarried, doesn't stand<BR>
a chance in many venues. Up here, we don't care. Our second-longest-serving<BR>
Prime Minister was a skirt-chasing bachelor when we first elected him, <BR>
got married while in office, got *divorced* while in office, and we still<BR>
kept electing him. (Pierre Trudeau.)<BR>
<BR>
>> "Beneficial to society as a whole", from the perspective of what *he*<BR>
>>deems valuable in a society, which may or may not be what others<BR>
>>find valuable.<BR>
><BR>
>One can argue, convincingly, that the "game of marbles" style of politics<BR>
>that has been standard in America since the advent of television is *not*<BR>
>beneficial to society as a whole, as one example.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps. As I don't understand US politics, I don't feel qualified to<BR>
comment.<BR>
<BR>
>To move away from Postman now, I'll inject my own comments:<BR>
><BR>
>Your claim is that the youth of today are reacting appropriately to new<BR>
>technologies as they appear. I hope that's a fair characterization. I would<BR>
>disagree with this wholeheartedly. <BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Your example, however informative, was also completely irrelevant to<BR>
my point. By "appropriately", I did not mean to imply appropriate with<BR>
the respect to good manners in public. I go to movies a lot, and I have<BR>
never experienced the kinds of things you wrote about. Then again, <BR>
Canadians *do* have a reputation for being more polite...<BR>
<BR>
But my point was that the younger set aren't freaked out by advances<BR>
in technology. I manage an online bookstore -- I have (generally older)<BR>
people phoning me to place their order over the phone because they are<BR>
leery about doing so via the Web, despite the fact that with our system,<BR>
ordering online is *safer* because their credit card number is never seen<BR>
by human eyes (except their own) during the transaction -- not even we at<BR>
the store see it. Ever. I have relatives in their 50s and 60s who refuse<BR>
to learn how to use an ATM to do their banking -- my mother freely uses<BR>
one to withdraw cash, but will never, ever make a deposit that way.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, the younger set, and the technophiles among those of<BR>
us over 30, have no problem following the latest advances, and even<BR>
anticipating them, and embrace them when they do get there.<BR>
<BR>
In fact, the casual use of cell phones and laser pointers you mention<BR>
only proves *my* point, that they embrace it so well that it becomes<BR>
casual to them. The problem isn't the technology, it's just plain poor<BR>
manners.<BR>
<BR>
>I'll admit, I haven't done a study on this or anything, but I do know that<BR>
>even in my relatively short experience as a movie freak, that the experience<BR>
>of going to the movies has deteriorated immensely as a result of the<BR>
>inappropriate integration of technology into everyday life... <BR>
<BR>
See last sentence in my previous paragraph, above. <BR>
<BR>
>Having been the recipient of email bombs sent by kids who don't like to have<BR>
>their points argued against on Usenet (points which, coincidentally, smacked<BR>
>of television slogan-mongering). Having been in a class where a student,<BR>
>upon receiving a cellphone call, argued with the teacher that he was a<BR>
>paying customer, and as such had some sort of moral right to receive calls<BR>
>whenever they came in, whether or not those calls were distracting to the<BR>
>class.<BR>
<BR>
Any kid who tried that up here would immediately have their telephone<BR>
confiscated.<BR>
<BR>
>I don't even want to begin to speculate on what the impact of these<BR>
>technologies are on a broader level. For example, television networks have<BR>
>been taking it upon themselves to define (or perhaps redefine) American<BR>
>morality through commercial length snippets. In these little "morality"<BR>
>commercials, you will frequently hear comments such as, "...violence is<BR>
>*never* the solution to *any* problem." There are also frequent<BR>
>exhortations, frequently aimed at children, to talk to a counselor or<BR>
>therapist.<BR>
<BR>
That's just the touchy-feely, left-leaning, politically-correct media<BR>
in control. I don't think it's a technological issue.<BR>
<BR>
>> If only the animation weren't so... so... awful.<BR>
><BR>
>It is awful though, isn't it?<BR>
<BR>
I'm not a fan of Japanese Animation to begin with... but I can at least<BR>
identify quality Anime from an artistic perspective. This isn't it.<BR>
<BR>
(It's strange how many people, seeing that I'm a fan of SF and comics<BR>
and animation and high-tech stuff, immediately conclude that I'm also<BR>
an Anime fan. Nope.)<BR>
<BR>
>>phenomenon -- it gives them a tangible focus for differentiating<BR>
>>themselves from their younger peers.<BR>
><BR>
>That isn't the case here in Philadelphia!<BR>
><BR>
>Clefable! Clefable!<BR>
<BR>
"Clefable"???<BR>
<BR>
>> >Yeah, but you're Canadian! I would expect you to have come out of<BR>
>> >the womb with a hockey stick! ;)<BR>
>><BR>
>> My American contemporaries no doubt collected baseball cards at<BR>
>>the time I was collecting hockey cards.<BR>
><BR>
>I notice that you don't deny coming out of the womb with a hockey stick! ;)<BR>
<BR>
I don't remember that far back. It was over 37 years ago, after all.<BR>
<BR>
>>kids spending their allowance, you keep prices low. (Pokemon can >get away<BR>
>with high pricing for their cards, since it's the parents who<BR>
>>get cajoled into buying them...)<BR>
><BR>
>It could be argued that most toys for children, with the exception of *some*<BR>
>action figures (and even then, not the accessories) must be bought by the<BR>
>parents.<BR>
<BR>
True. But I always bought my own hockey cards.<BR>
<BR>
>> Her job was on the editorial staff of one of their RPGs. Ars Magica,<BR>
>>if I remember correctly.<BR>
><BR>
>Ach, then maybe her job wasn't all that secure. One wonders *why* someone<BR>
>who believed that RPGs were going to go the way of the dodo would take a job<BR>
>on the editorial staff for an RPG.<BR>
<BR>
I often wondered that myself. And her also being (formerly) one of the<BR>
high-ups in the Canadian arm of CAR-PGa, the pro-RPG advocacy group.<BR>
(Formerly, since when she moved out of Canada to the US she had to drop<BR>
her position within the Canadian arm of the organization, of course.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:51:26 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
>>What is a munchkin?<BR>
><BR>
>Is this a rhetorical question, or a serious request for a definition?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I meant it, gomen nasai (RTF FAQ, Kiri chan, ne?)<BR>
<BR>
>>From the TML FAQ:<BR>
><BR>
>"Munchkin - Derogatory term referring to RPG players who is interested in<BR>
minimising their disadavantages, maximising their advantages and having the<BR>
coolest weapons and equipment. Role playing skills are not to the forefront<BR>
here."<BR>
><BR>
LOL<BR>
<BR>
>>I've known a very few obnoxious female gamers, but they were all obnoxious<BR>
because their partners had dragged them along and they didn't really want to<BR>
be there.<BR>
>><BR>
>This is not the case with the woman in question. She *loves* playing the<BR>
games. But her style of play and the way she creates characters is pretty<BR>
much consistent with the above definition. She also suffers from the<BR>
complete and total inability to separate her characters from her own self.<BR>
So for example if someone, in character, says something to her (character)<BR>
that she (herself) doesn't like, she'll take it personally.<BR>
><BR>
Ah!  I do know an obnoxious female gamer that was never a drag-along then!<BR>
<BR>
My best friend in college was just such a person.  She had these magic dice,<BR>
she'd roll up almost all 18's and stuff, and if you gave everyone points<BR>
instead, she'd still manage to get the perfect character.  But her character<BR>
was almost always a beautiful young female and she always fell in love with<BR>
the bad guy, unless the bad guy was a totally stupid, ugly brute, and then<BR>
she'd make life hell for the other PC's if they tried to do in the bad guy.<BR>
Ugh!  She was my best friend and I couldn't throw her out of the games, but<BR>
she drove me NUTS!!!<BR>
<BR>
She's the sort of person who would be sure that she could find the embers of<BR>
Anakin smouldering away inside of Darth's black armor.  And she'd get the<BR>
whole party killed trying!  Oh, and she quit a few games in anger because<BR>
she didn't get her man...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri ::shudders:: at all the dark memories.<BR>
<BR>
She also got mad at me when she read my novel because the characters don't<BR>
all get complete justice and don't end up neatly paired off at the end.<BR>
<BR>
>>They weren't really gamers at all and they drove me nuts because they<BR>
tended to assume the same of me, except when I RAN the games.<BR>
>><BR>
>I've known several female gamers who actually liked the game.<BR>
><BR>
I've known lots-- just not the women I was thinking of when I wrote about<BR>
the truly obnoxious female gamers.  The people I was thinking of were like<BR>
the girl who always came to my games and rolled up a character because her<BR>
girlfriend (yes I do mean lesbian partner) wanted her to.  She'd roll up a<BR>
character and then she'd either sit thru the game with earphones on<BR>
listening to ABBA and you'd have to thunk her to get her attention in<BR>
combat-- or she'd role play in the most ANNOYING way possible, i.e. her<BR>
character would always be a loony, a small child, or an animal and she would<BR>
do whatever she could to break things up and distract the party.<BR>
<BR>
I was convinced this was her way of getting back at S, who was a very avid<BR>
gamer, for dragging her to all these games.  She also got very angry at me<BR>
because she liked Elfquest and she expected every game she played in to use<BR>
Elfquest elves-- and I didn't.  Don't.  Won't.  Richard Pini completely<BR>
offended me personally in the early 80's and I haven't looked at anything EQ<BR>
related since.<BR>
<BR>
>The one or two I knew who were there just because their partners had<BR>
"dragged them along" and didn't want to be there -- what usually happened<BR>
was that eventually they and their male, game-loving, partners would<BR>
disappear from the game.<BR>
><BR>
That usually happened.  But unfortunately, not with D-Ko (we nicknamed her<BR>
this after the bratty princess C-Ko in the anime "Project A-Ko", whom she<BR>
resembled and acted like, right down to the horrible cooking, terrible<BR>
screaming, and the being the love object of a number of women who should<BR>
have had better taste.)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan         93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out here who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                     -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1472<BR>
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